Consider this a logical conclusion of sorts to those -inspired ASB scenarios. Also, I thought of trying something different before getting back to fic-writing. In any case, this is not a political/ideological propaganda screed at all. This is a work of fiction so feel free to critique it to your heart's content.
Also, thanks to for allowing me to use this map ([link]) as a basis for some of the details. You may also notice something vaguely lurking in the map as well.
On the 10th of August, atb 2010, the Holy Britannian Empire invaded the island nation of Japan, allegedly over resources and ideology. Within a month, the country crumbled before the advanced might of the invading forces and their army of war machines called “Knightmare Frames.” The defeated Japanese were subsequently deprived of their rights, identity and even their name as the newly conquered/colonized land was designated “Area 11.”
All that happened in AD 1955, seven years ago in another version of our world. The strange anomaly known simply as the Event that transpired soon after had not only brought to light such knowledge but had also displaced elements of that reality into this one. But while the initial chaos and signing of the so-called Goodwill Armistice have long since passed, the times have definitely changed.
Of note is Britannia itself. The result of a world and history different yet oddly similar to our own, the Empire is in ways a warped mirror of Great Britain and the European powers of old, right down to a powerful if bloated aristocracy. Though little is really certain, it seems to follow what could be described as a strange mix of Social Darwinism, Absolutism and Feudal Imperialism, all embodied by its omnipotent Emperor. At the same time, Britannians are a paradox. Full-fledged citizens enjoy considerable rights, liberties and standards regardless of race or even gender. While “Numbers,” conquered locals residing in the Areas are purposefully ghettoized and deprived of those comforts lest they choose to become “honorary Britannians.” And despite the socio-cultural strangeness, they are nonetheless technologically advanced, possessing devices and weaponry (such as the Knightmares) generations ahead of even the pre-Event superpowers. It is also in part to this that they were able to “integrate” a recently evacuated South Korea and parts of an unstable Mexico despite the Armistice.
With the loss of western North America and Hawaii, the United States had virtually lost much of its reach in the Pacific overnight. The remaining soldiers were withdrawn from much of Asia as frantic skirmishes between National Guard and Britannian forces raged along the new border. The mere fact that American soil was not simply being fought over but reduced served only to weaken morale, dissuading the military from resorting to atom bombs. If not for the Armistice, some claimed that the country would have suffered much worse against “those damn tin cans.” Still, the US has persevered as major world power. New York has once again become a cultural, financial and diplomatic hub. Thanks in part to Eisenhower’s efforts and newly elected President Nixon’s “Second Manifest Destiny,” America’s strength across the Atlantic remains a strong deterrent against the Soviets through the Iron Curtain even as a new one against the newcomers continues to grow.
Meanwhile, the Event has brought an unexpected turn of events for their supposed counterparts in this world: the United Kingdom. The British, their Commonwealth and what remained of their own Empire saw in Britannia a distorted mirror image of themselves: showing both the heights they could have achieved and the excesses of their worst aspects. At the same time, the US retreat had left open an opportunity to reestablish their prominence in what’s left of the free Pacific (and to a degree, Asia). Thus while efforts were made to aid Canada in the wake of the Armistice, an ambitious plan was put into motion. With public and royal support, it was announced that “there is only one family of realms deserving of the name Britannia. And it shall rule the waves once more.” Against the expectations of even their American allies, reforms were implemented to not only strengthen themselves but to become a Commonwealth deserving of their “genuinely civilized” ideals. In the process, they have emerged revitalized and poised to stand on more solid footing against their otherworldly rivals, although some still insist that this is the “British Empire’s last hurrah.”
The Soviet Union, while relatively unaffected at first, tried to take advantage of the sudden changes, with some success. With the American withdrawals, the Russians and their Communist comrades attempted to expand their influence in Asia beginning with Korea, only to find that the approaching Britannians were even worse. Many among the Politburo considered launching propaganda campaigns and even their atomic weapons against “Area 11” by the time of the Armistice. Indeed, the focus put on dealing with the newcomers proved distracting enough that the unrest in the Warsaw Pact (beginning in Hungary) only settled down by the start of 1957. Their expansion into America’s doorstep on the other hand was more successful with the Socialists of Cuba and Nicaragua showing themselves willing allies to the Soviet cause, especially with the Anglo-American spheres increasingly hostile to them.
Elsewhere, the world continues to undergo change as a new status quo is setting in. In Europe, pan-Continental ideals and the threats posed by the newcomers are inspiring some NATO countries to consider a “United States of Western Europe.” Decolonization outside of the Commonwealth has more or less stabilized, with the French attempting to copy the UK’s success with mixed results. Attempts by the United Nations to impose sanctions against Britannia have rung hollow. Technology meanwhile, while still behind the Empire’s standards, is catching up. Among others, efforts are made to reverse engineer and mass-produce the humanoid Knightmares that have made short work of conventional post-World War II tanks (which still seem to defy modern military thinking even now), while attempts are underway to replicate the efficiency of Sakuradite” (called the “Wonder-Rock” in the American press) with diesel and nuclear power. Their success in turn has so far been limited even with the aid given by political prisoners who had escaped the Empire, which aren’t helped by rumors of a secret weapon known only to the CIA, KGB and MI6 as “FLEIJA.” All while the arms race continues to build up, the great powers simultaneously try to outdo each other and the world inches ever closer to war.
Such is the state of affairs in the present time of 1962, or 2017 in the Britannian calendar. And with reports of Area 11’s Viceroy Clovis li Britannia murdered by a masked vigilante known as “Zero,” this could turn out to be an interesting year.
I don't own Code Geass. All rights belong to its respective owners, such as Sunrise.
I can see the knightmare frames beating tanks, but that would only be due to the sheer technological difference, not because giant humanoid robots are better at tank roles, aircraft roles, artillery roles, or whatever then those actual technologies and vehicles are.
The local powers of our world would swiftly abandoned efforts to make their own mechs, because they would quickly see that their mechs would be far more expensive, far more complex and logistically demanding and failure prone, and less effective in the roles of already existing military vehicles, tools, and weapons used properly in a combined arms warfare fashion.
They would not be able to make their own mechs, and trying to use would only make them less effective against Brittania, not more.
I feel our world would swiftly adopt the pentomic army design (i.e. something US tried to make for over a decade in real life history, a military force designed to wage war on a nuclear battlefield and win), and would mass produce nukes of both tactical and strategic variety.
The M-28 or M-29 Davy Crockett Weapon System(s) was a tactical nuclear recoilless gun (smoothbore) for firing the M-388 nuclear projectile that was deployed by the United States during the Cold War. Named after American soldier,congressman, and folk hero Davy Crockett, it was one of the smallest nuclear weapon systems ever built.
The Davy Crockett recoilless spigot gun was developed in the late 1950s for use against Soviet armor and troops if war broke out in Europe. Davy Crockett Sections were assigned to USAREUR (United States Army Europe) armor and mechanized and non-mechanized infantry battalions. During alerts to the Inner German border in the Fulda Gap the Davy Crocketts accompanied their battalions. All V Corps (including 3rd Armored Division) combat maneuver battalions had preassigned positions in the Fulda Gap. These were known as GDP (General Defense Plan) positions. The Davy Crockett sections were included in these defensive deployment plans. In addition to the Davy Crocketts (e.g., assigned to the 3rd Armored Division), V Corps had nuclear artilleryrounds and Atomic Demolition Mines, and these were also targeted on the Fulda Gap.
The M-388 round used a version of the W54 warhead, a very small sub-kiloton fission device. The Mk-54 weighed about 51 lb (23 kg), with a yield equivalent to somewhere between 10 or 20 tons of TNT— very close to the minimum practical size and yield for a fission warhead. The only selectable feature with either versions of the Davy Crockett (M28 & M29) was the height-of-burst dial on the warhead. Post-Davy Crockett versions of the W54 nuclear device apparently had a selectable yield feature (see below for Hi/Lo Switch and Launching Piston references.) The complete round weighed 76 lb (34.5 kg). It was 31 in. (78.7 cm) long with a diameter of 11 in. (28 cm) at its widest point; a subcaliber piston at the back of the shell was inserted into the launcher's barrel for firing. The "piston" was considered a spigot prior to the discharge of the propellant cartridge in the recoilless gun chamber of the Davy Crockett. The M-388 atomic projectile was mounted on the barrel-inserted spigot via bayonet slots. Once the propellant was discharged the spigot became the launching piston for the M-388 atomic projectile. The nuclear yield is hinted at in FM 9-11: Operation and Employment of the Davy Crockett Battlefield Missile, XM-28/29 (June 1963).
THe US army originally ordered 150,000 of them, though they never got them.
We also tried to make nuclear powered aircraft that could potentially stay in the air for months or even years (so long as the pilots would hold out, of course).
I for sea our world becoming a nuclear tactical and strategic military world in this timeline in order to defend themselves adequately from the "Britannian Empire."
At least that is what i would think would happen in this scenario for an alternate history.
However, the whole pentomic army idea was for over a decade something of an obsession in our military during this exact time period. The david crocket recoilless gun was invented before this, and 150,000 of the dang things were wanted. The cold war, plus super advanced massive evil empire from another alternate earth would make the paranoia of the times greater, thus non-strategic nukes more likely to be used militarilly
I still think they might end up using davy crocket recoilless guns, as they only fire 50 pound nuclear warheads, short of nuclear phobia becoming huge, to the point of over-riding the inevitable insane levels of paranoia and fear of the Britannian Empire that would grip Britain, the US, and the USSR.
The USSR and US would certainly threaten nuclear retaliation against the territories possessed by the Holy Brittannian Empire in this world, even if they would not use them on their own territory (also, the USSR never in their doctrine made the kind of distinction between nukes and conventional explosives that the US made, thus the USSR would be more willing to use full-fledged nukes against enemy armies on their soil at this point then, especially considering the lack of willingness of the Americans to bomb their homeland)
Heck, Ronald Reagan and Gorbachev actually had a pledge to join together to fight aliens.
Likely, the Soviets and the US would at some point in this time line pledge to respond mutually to Brittannian aggression, even if they never actually made any kind of alliance at any point.
Also, early in the beginning of season one, we saw helicopters, what looked wheeled tanks (an AFV of some kind). I at first thought the mechs were being used as they should be realistically, as heavy infantry support vehicles, more useful in urban combat, minimizing the disadvantages of mechs compared to tanks.
The short and concise version:
Manueverability: A tank has a greater surface contact area and better traction, ergo it should by all rights be better at turning. On the related topic of mobility a tracked vehicle of equal weight will be able to go places no mecha could because of the previously mentioned area of surface contact. The tank's weight is spread over a larger area and thus it won't sink as easily. Plus it can't exactly trip and fall over.
A conventional tank will be able to carry larger, scarier weapons than a mecha of equal mass. The tank has a lower center of gravity and is in an inherently stable design. The bipedal shape isn't all that stable so a tank will be able to fire weapons that would knock a mecha of the same weight flat on its big expensive ass.
The basic design of a tank means that it will be much easier to properly slope the armor on a tank than it will be on a mech. Tanks will also have fewer faces to armor than mecha and thus can mount more protection on each area for the same weight of armor. Also in the realm of protection is the fact that a tank is a low built shape, it's low to the ground whereas the mecha has a massive vertical profile making it much easier to spot, and in modern warfare if you can see it you can kill it.
Support and Logistics:
Tanks: Relatively simple design.
Mecha: Design with lots of extra moving bits that have to withstand constant and repeated heavy shocks every time the thing is moving.
There's no readily apperant reason I've seen why mecha can get by with just a single pilot compared to the crew a tank needs, it's just one of those things that's sorta there.
First, I think we should define what exactly we are talking about when we say "mecha". Is it a 100-meter tall super-robot (a fantasy vehicle), or something more mundane? There are a few military projects going on around the world that aims to develop "Powered Armor" - is this mecha?course mecha and power armor aren't usually considered the same.
In this post, i'm going to assume a mecha is something like the vehicles in the anime Gasaraki (www.apc.net/mechworks/gasaraki…), a somewhat more realistic mech.
a tank have massive advantages over mecha in most circumstances. This can be a little different if you look at different enviroments however. A mecha could be tactically viable if you were to deploy it in eviroment not idealy suited to tanks, such as:
- Urban enviroments
- Very rocky/and or mountanous terrain
- Dense wooded areas
Even then, a mecha would not make a tank obsolete, but supplement it by bridging the gap between infantry and tanks, since you would still need it for open terrain.
It should be noted however, that major figures in the U.S have argumented that since air power now thumphs ground forces on almost all occations, heavy armour is now actually obsolete. It may be better to drop some survivability to gain mobility and low weight, also making the vehicles air-transportable. This may improve the future for mechs.
An interesting article that provides much better info on the realistic mecha, namely power armour: www.dcr.net/~stickmak/JOHT/joh…
As the Stryker MGS has demonstrated in its attempted use of an M60 tank gun, there are large problems with making some forms of equipment lighter.
The 120mm cannons currently mounted on NATO main battle tanks quickly become unsafe to mount as you scale down the size of the vehicle you are using.
This is also a major argument against mecha - especially bipeds - being able to rival a tank's firepower due to the size and balance issues inherent with trying to mount a 120mm cannon on such a platform. That's not even touching the big configuration problems of how the gun, its ammo supply and its loading mechanism would actually fit in a given platform.
However, if you get a good enough strenght to weight ratio (by among other things keeping the size down to a reasonable scale), a power armoured trooper og robot could be vastly more mobile than regular infantry, wich would give it many advantages over tanks under the conditions mentioned earlier. But it still wouldn't obsolete them.
Another question: We are talking about tanks I presume, not armoured vehicles in general, like IFV's. And by tanks we mean tracked, heavily armoured, mobile weapon platforms without the capabillity to carry (a lot of) troops.
Also, I do not really see how a mecha could be more useful in urban terrain then a conventional tank or other AFV. A gigantic Gundam-esque machine could easily be spotted and eliminated from a distance, and a smaller mecha would be just as tall as an equivalent tank.
Again, I do not see a mecha simply slipping through the trees like a human. A large one could conceivably crash its way through, but it would leave an obvious trail and might be seen above the canopy. A smaller mecha could not break through and would be too bulky to slip through.
If infantry are deployed in terrain where no conventional vehicles can traverse, you're probably better off with a helicopter gunship. If the mecha falls on hard rocks, that's at least a million down the drain.
Certainly, other options would be a lot cheaper and more cost-effective then a mech. Mech that are ten ft. tall maximum hat act as infantry support and power armor are all that would really appear in the real world militaries at any point i feel.
Even using fictional futuristic technology, the same stuff that makes a mecha workable can be put into a tank to make for a superior design. Assuming equal technology, tank > mecha in every category.
Only on the mythical planet of nothing but stairs would mechs be superior to tanks of remotely comparable cost and technology. even then, other more conventional vehicles, like gunships, would be even more superior on this planet.
(p.s. once again i apologize for my long-winded rant).
Spider drone has been done in Battlebots.
Summery: Legs break. Legs break easily. Legs very difficult to fix. Bot is slow.
ye olde box is easy to put sloping armor, everything is easily almost completely protected by armor of ye olde boxe.
spindly limbs and body supported by other spindly limbs cannot support nearly as much armor, and said armor would be almost impossible to slope on legged thing.
making the armor equal to a tank makes limbs super heavy and requiring idiotically vast amounts of power (not to mention a super computer) to make it work. making as fast or faster then the tank would balloon the amount of power and computational power needed even more, making the whole thing even more expensive). This isn't even taking to account armor needed to help the body
Again, vehicles with legs need a ridiculously power intensive drive and engine in order to work compared to ye olde box (and would yield far more performance in a ye olde box with wheels or tracks).
spindly limbs supported by a body on more spindly limbs cannot handle as much as much recoil as accurately as can a weapon mounted in the awesomeness of the ye olde box vehicle. because of this, for the US, Britain's, and Soviets, they would use ye olde box ground vehicles to mount weapons far more heavy and more accurate then anything they could possibly give to a mech (anything comparable would either be super inaccurate and would knock mech on its ass constantly, or the weapons would be far lighter). even a spider like vehicle wouldn't help, because the problems of legs still exist, and legs can be shot off.
any tech to make a mech work would make tanks, planes, helicopters, other AFVs, etc., even more effective then mechs by far.
If all the problems in the above posts do not apply in the world of Code Geass, then they have different laws of physics from ours. Then, their knightmare frames in our world would probably not be on the same level of effectiveness that they posses in their own world.
And that is why this earth would probably never make anything like knightmare frames.
Done with my tank vs. mech rant, i swear